Curse

Evilsod · Aug 31, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Oh so your theory behind this is that people shouldn't use it if they think its overpowered to make things hard on themselves... while the players who obviously lack the same level of skill can coast through it using overpowered skills?

Think before you post or you end up spewing shit like that.

Seed of Life was the equivilent of Aeris' final limit break in Final Fantasy 7... temporary invunerability that could be abused quite easily. While i would say upping the recharge and lowering duration was overkill, something had to be done.

Epinephrine · Aug 31, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

No fun for who? If the answer is you, then simply don't use the skill.

Yeah, I can see that.
Me> Ok, we've got our monks. Now, can we make sure nobody has Seed of Life, since it makes this mission too easy.
Monk1> Wtf? I want masters. Shut up.
Monk2> Kick him!

Besides - ANet has a job to challenge us. When the game is too easy they make it harder, when it's too hard they make it easier (FAR MORE OFTEN).

And your ease of accomplishing things does affect me - or more to the point, the play environment. Even if I only played with heroes, the economy feels the effects of the skill, as do the titles etc. I can choose to make the game harder for myself, yes - and I often do. I suspect ANet has a pretty good idea what people want from the game, and overall it's not to blast through it in a day, invulnerable. And with a tank and a bonder that's pretty much what Seed of Life did.

Kashrlyyk · Aug 31, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody Cross

On the one side, I think this was a bad nerf. Instead of killing the skill, they could have just reduced its heal per hit by reducing the DF bonus to 2 or 1. that would still be worth bringing.

I have, thus far, avoided using it. The conditions and poor uptime for the skill combine to make it rather lousy unless chained by multiple monks. its not worth the slot when I can have healing seed to prot the tank, and keep the team up with proper agro and placment.

On the other side: LoL at some of the PvEers. its always been: PvP nerfs PvE! I'm sorry to laugh; I'm sure its not funny from your point of view, but at least you can't blame THIS skill balance on us

GGs

We can blame it on Izzy, who plays mainly PvP. That is close enough!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Oh so your theory behind this is that people shouldn't use it if they think its overpowered to make things hard on themselves... while the players who obviously lack the same level of skill can coast through it using overpowered skills?

And your problem with that is? How does that concern you?

trobinson97 · Aug 31, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Oh so your theory behind this is that people shouldn't use it if they think its overpowered to make things hard on themselves... while the players who obviously lack the same level of skill can coast through it using overpowered skills?

Think before you post or you end up spewing shit like that.

Seed of Life was the equivilent of Aeris' final limit break in Final Fantasy 7... temporary invunerability that could be abused quite easily. While i would say upping the recharge and lowering duration was overkill, something had to be done.

Wow. I really had to laugh at that. So, you don't think all these people who are looking for some great challenge should stop using skills (take it OFF the bar) that they feel make it too easy, YET you welcome a nerf that makes the skill not worthy of being on a bar. Really? Are you really not seeing the failure of that way of thinking? You should just think, forget about the posting.

Oh yeah, why are you so hung up on your so called "player skill" in this video game? Get real lol, funniest thing I've ever read. It's a video game, not the olympics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epeniphrine

Yeah, I can see that.
Me> Ok, we've got our monks. Now, can we make sure nobody has Seed of Life, since it makes this mission too easy.
Monk1> Wtf? I want masters. Shut up.
Monk2> Kick him!

Basically. You(or they) have the choice to do so if you(or they) are the leader of that party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epiniphrine

Besides - ANet has a job to challenge us. When the game is too easy they make it harder, when it's too hard they make it easier (FAR MORE OFTEN).

They did their job too, they call it hard mode. If that doesn't challenge you, then you ned to find another challenge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epiniphrine

And your ease of accomplishing things does affect me - or more to the point, the play environment. Even if I only played with heroes, the economy feels the effects of the skill, as do the titles etc. I can choose to make the game harder for myself, yes - and I often do. I suspect ANet has a pretty good idea what people want from the game, and overall it's not to blast through it in a day, invulnerable. And with a tank and a bonder that's pretty much what Seed of Life did.

You can reach with that statement as much as you want, it's stil pretty worthless. The way I play pve has no effect on how you play pve! Period. Please give a better example that that lame economy one you just tossed out there. If you want to spend your virtual gold on new skins or alcohol, that's up to you. There's nothing that I am doing while killing AI that effects it. There's a fixed price for max weapons, armor, and consumables that makes it so you don't have to worry about optional stuff like that.

Ecomancer · Aug 31, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Amusing posts.

Quote:

Gives +400% movement speed and invulnerability for running." it'd be pretty clearly dumb, so you are obviously wrong about there being no such thing as overpowered.

Seed of Life does not give you any of that. Seed of Life isn't god mode people. I fail to understand where all these comments are coming from. I would go as far as to hazzard a guess that many of the pronerf bats here have never even used Seed of Life. I must be missing something or Seed of Life must have been the only skill people used on their bar of 8 as monks to heal? Could 1 monk with just Seed of Life save 8 people including himself?

Put things into perspective please.

Yichi · Aug 31, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecomancer

Could 1 monk with just Seed of Life save 8 people including himself?

Very easily actually.

Epinephrine · Aug 31, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecomancer

Seed of Life isn't god mode people.

Actually, it pretty much was. Seed of Life on a paragon who is Angelic Bonding a tank (non-removable bond, paragon out of aggro) pretty much pumps healing to everyone. Two copies of Seed of life made permanent health gain to the party.

It was laughably easy to blow through even hard mode missions with two human monks.

Ecomancer · Aug 31, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

Very easily actually.

I hope you posted with a geniune claim and not just for the sake of trying to be funny. I can see where you are going with that but as I said, lets keep things in perspective. The sad thing is, ANET did not even try making it the least bit useful. They could have done it some justice as it stands now I seriously doubt that anyone will ever use this skill as it stands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Actually, it pretty much was. Seed of Life on a paragon who is Angelic Bonding a tank (non-removable bond, paragon out of aggro) pretty much pumps healing to everyone. Two copies of Seed of life made permanent health gain to the party.

It was laughably easy to blow through even hard mode missions with two human monks.

That may very well be true, but other similar scenarios can be drawn with other skills; BiP with 2 heal party monks. Look I wasn't talking about two or three people equipping SoL, I asked seriously "Can 1 monk with JUST SoL keep the whole team alive".

Epinephrine · Aug 31, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ecomancer

That may very well be true, but other similar scenarios can be drawn with other skills; BiP with 2 heal party monks.

Not quite the same - you'd have to have played with a decent group maybe to have seen how ridiculously overpowered SoL was, but it was.

Could the one skill alone keep an entire party alive? No, but no skill can. It honestly povided more healing than anything else out there, by a HUGE margin. The old version, at say 10 seconds +20% enchanting gave 12 seconds of time; in that period a player who was under fire (say, trying to get aggro, but not a perfect tanking situation) could easily expect to take damage 3 times or more per second. At 3 times a second and decent Divine favor (say about 12?) it's a Heal Party at 13 healing every second for 12 seconds. That's 8*72*12, only 7000 health for 10 energy.

Doesn't that sound absurd? A heal party per second for 12 seconds???

With bonding/tanking it got even worse - the number of pulses of damage could get much higher, easily twice that figure, making for double the rate of healing. It simply wasn't possible to die while the tank was being hit.

haggus71 · Aug 31, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

The bigger problem, I think, isn't whether Seed of Life shouldn't have been nerfed. I think if you are honest, the skill did make it a bit easy.

The problem is, if a good skill is around long enough, someone, somewhere, is going to make use of it. They post their build on Guru, showing how proud they are of their achievement. Next thing, everyone and their sister are using builds with the skill. The Anet crew reads the popular forums and wikis and get wind of it. They take a look at it, and if it is one skill that is making these characters overpowered, they whack it. Most times they will give some skills a buff when they have gone too far(ex: the recent sin skills buff). If they don't? It's just a skill! One of hundreds! If you can't play the game anymore because they nerfed Seed of Life, I wonder how you handle changes in the workplace. If you fall apart with a GAME SKILL NERF, do you fall apart and cry when your boss says a project might need a bit more work?

Yeah, whiners do sometimes get the attention of the devs, but I would HOPE they don't just say, "Oops, they're bitching about Incoming! Get out the bat." I would think they test it first, then adjust accordingly.

There have been many more severe nerfs before this one. Ask a paragon.

Taurucis · Aug 31, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

6 seconds maximum for Seed of Life is pitiful. You have bosses that can destroy a team in one single spell, why not have at least one way to counter it?

Chicken Ftw · Aug 31, 2007, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

6 seconds maximum for Seed of Life is pitiful. You have bosses that can destroy a team in one single spell, why not have at least one way to counter it?

There is a counter to your situation. Spreading out, managing aggro and protting. Also known as playing smart, not relying on broken skills.

Bryant Again · Aug 31, 2007, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

6 seconds maximum for Seed of Life is pitiful. You have bosses that can destroy a team in one single spell, why not have at least one way to counter it?

Yeah you're just gonna have to think outside the box here.

acidic · Aug 31, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

seed of life was good, but this is over nerfing too much.

It was primarly used for when the team got swamped and broke aggro or when the monk want to conserve mana and sol is very energy efficient at 10e for a non stop party healing for 10 seconds. But now this is not worth taking, 5 seconds/25 recharge.

Faer · Aug 31, 2007, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

why not have at least one way to counter it?

Draw straws, pick a lucky fellow, prot him up, send him in. Enemy burns spell, you have until it recharges to do some damage and apply some shutdown.

Problem solved?

around · Aug 31, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

So you're saying that skills should be balanced according to how good they are in a pug?

That's akin to saying PvP balance should be based on RA.

Taurucis · Aug 31, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

So you're saying that skills should be balanced according to how good they are in a pug?

That's akin to saying PvP balance should be based on RA.

That's akin to saying PvE-only skills and PvE in general should be balanced based on PvP.

Always assume the worst, so that you can adjust for it.

I don't do hard mode, btw

Thomas.knbk · Aug 31, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Wait, could the fact that it was bloody impossible to die with two copies of this thrown on a bonder have something to do with it?

Bryant Again · Aug 31, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

That's akin to saying PvE-only skills and PvE in general should be balanced based on PvP.

.....Um, no?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

I don't do hard mode, btw

Hard mode is where this skill would be most needed.

FelixCarter · Aug 31, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

Wait, could the fact that it was bloody impossible to die with two copies of this thrown on a bonder have something to do with it?

Then why didn't they nerf that?
Make it last 10 seconds, cost 10 energy, recharge after 45 seconds, and not stack and not be triggered by bond.

Like I said: Nerf was too harsh. Don't completely obliterate a skill so that no one wants to use it again... Balance it.

I'm also fine with the 5 second duration if they make it cost 5 energy and recharge after 20 seconds.